The REAL Reasons Seniors Resist Moving from their Home

Scroll down to view the webinar recording for “The REAL Reasons Loved Ones Resist Moving.”

Prefer to read? Go to the end of the page to view the transcript of this important conversation on how to help aging parents and spouses make the best later-in-life housing decision for them.

WEBINAR SUMMARY:

When it comes to talking with your parents or your spouse about moving out of the family home, using logic usually doesn’t work. When having the conversation about moving into community living (even if it’s moving into a smaller home in an adult community versus their 3000 sqft home!), it’s important to understand the REAL reasons loved ones resist moving (or say they do).

Pam Ostrowski, founder of Alzheimer’s Family Consulting, and Paige Fairbanks-Gunn, Regional Director at Koelsch Communities, discuss what families REALLY say about why they resist moving out of the family home.

In this interactive webinar, What’s REALLY Stopping Your Loved One from Making THE Move, we discuss the following as well as answer your questions!

• Why is there so much resistance to moving out of the family home and into a community?
• How to make the later-in-life living conversation easier with parents
• The two questions to ask your loved one to help them make the right housing decision for themselves.

Watch and take notes to learn how to best talk about where to live in the later years of life.

We also talk about the pros and cons of later-in-life living arrangements as well as how to have the conversations. It’s important to not “parent your parent (or spouse!)”, but instead, treat them, their lives, and their decisions with respect.

We KNOW that living alone is bad for the brain and overall health. But that doesn’t mean your loved one has to give up their independence, their hobbies, their friends, and their quality of life. Research shows that people who live in communities with their peers live longer, healthier, happier lives.

If you have questions, use the contact form at the bottom of each page on this website to reach out and ask your question and get a response free of charge.

TRANSCRIPT

Please note that this transcript was auto-generated by software and therefore, may include misspellings and incorrect punctuation. I’m pretty sure you’ll get the gist of what we were saying. If not, feel free to listen to the video or send me an email or fill out the contact form to ask for clarification.

SPEAKERS
Pam Ostrowski, Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 00:04
Hello, everybody, welcome to our series we call “better living for an enjoyable future.” So we’re glad that you’re all here today. My name is Paige Fairbanks Gunn, and I work for Koelsch communities.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 00:23
We are senior living, we have independent living, assisted and also memory care. I’ve been in the industry about 25 years, and we have communities all across the country and eight states, and I’m in the Arizona region. Pam and I have worked together for the last going on for years ever since COVID. So we work closely together and partner and collaborate. And we’re just happy to have you here today, Pam, and you’re also an author. So what’s tell me about the story about the cover of your book.

Pam Ostrowski 00:58
So welcome, everyone. I’m Pam Ostrowski. I’m the founder of Alzheimer’s Family Consulting. And I work with adult children and spouses who have loved ones with some sort of cognitive impairment or anticipating cognitive impairment progression.

Pam Ostrowski 01:13
And so I wrote the book, It’s Not That Simple: Helping Families Navigate the Alzheimer’s Journey. I get this question a lot. So thank you, Paige, for asking.

Pam Ostrowski 01:22
People have asked, Why is there a compass? Why are there trees? Why is there a path and? And who are these people? And then why is this person in a wheelchair, and my mom was in a wheelchair, so it’s kind of a tribute to her for the last five years of her life.

Pam Ostrowski 01:39
And sometimes when you have cognitive impairment, Alzheimer’s in particular, it can change your movement and stability.

Pam Ostrowski 01:46
So the path is actually the path, the journey that is taken as part of the multi year journey. So those of you who are on here that have someone with dementia in your life, you know, you know that it’s multi year that my journey was 14 years. And then more importantly, this is what Paige and I are, we’re the compass pointing you to true north to help you with wherever you are on that path. And, you know, trying to get through that scary dark forest and have hope and understanding and have the comprehension and the ability to get through this and be okay with it, to not have regret and don’t feel guilt and don’t feel sad, but instead to look at things from a different mindset. And from a different perspective.

Pam Ostrowski 02:38
So that’s what we try to do in these sessions as well as professionally outside of them. So just wanted to kind of thanks for asking that.

Pam Ostrowski 02:48
So we are here today to talk about what’s really the reason why our parents don’t want to talk about later in life living. So we added the word “really”, because a lot of times adult children think that oh, they’re they’re just being stubborn. My mom and dad are just being stubborn about changing, you know, downsizing from their 3000 square foot home. And you know, you might be right.

Pam Ostrowski 03:23
But Paige and I deal with and we’ll talk with people every day about this particular topic, and we have some insights we’d like to share with you. So Paige, what’s your first real reason for why aging? Individuals hesitate to talk about well, what is my later in life plan?

Pam Ostrowski 03:45
And by the way, if you’re an adult child of someone in their 80s, this conversation is about you and your loved one, not just not just, you know, well, if this is my parents conversation, it’s like viewing your late 50s, early 60s, what’s your later in life plan? So Paige, what do you what do you have? What do you hear the most for a real reason for not moving?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 04:09
The most that I hear? It’s not that they don’t want to think about it, because they are thinking about it. They are. But the biggest thing is they’re overwhelmed and don’t know how to move forward about having basically the logistics of everything. It’s overwhelming.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 04:30
And Pam, you and I spoke yesterday. And I talked to my aunt yesterday. My aunt’s name is Pam. And here’s a prime example. My aunt is 75. She’s coming here next week from Kansas. She’s my only relative left in Kansas. And we’re going through this with her. So she says I’m taking a big leap because we’re going to pick out an apartment the following Saturday and she’s going to be moving into an independent living community. And she downsized About 10 years ago, and this is so overwhelming for her, and she’s like, How is this all going to work?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 05:05
And I said, You know what Pam, we’ve got, I have, we’ve got movers. We’ve got a realtor in Kansas for you. We’ve got, you know, the downsizing, we’ve got shoppers, we have everything. So I have to help her on both sides. Because she’s moving out, she’s moving out of state. So I’ve got to help her from a distance.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 05:24
But it’s the overwhelming part of just change and the logistics of everything. And like I said, She’s, she’s already downsized into a 1500 square foot home 10 years ago. So she’s just overwhelmed with that, which is she’s already made the first step. But if you can imagine a 3000 square foot home, and what have you been there for 40 years? I can’t imagine what is in every drawer and closet in your house. That just to me is overwhelming. That?

Pam Ostrowski 05:55
Yeah, and I just did that. Right? I just moved from Arizona to Colorado. You just went through it. And you just open a cabinet. And you’re like, really, there’s more stuff and I’m not a hoarder, I don’t have a ton of stuff. But when you start packing, you realize, like, I probably have 60 or 70 boxes, put in storage. And it’s just, it’s crazy. So then the question is all right, I’ve got someone who’s not willing to say that it’s overwhelming. How do we get them across that that hump, so to speak, that mindset of it’s just too much I don’t want to do with it. It’s just

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 06:29
too much. Well, that’s where the solution comes in about our network of people and resources, supportive services, to help them. And we Pam and I really try to customize our guidance. I mean, these are people that this is their business, this is what they do. So you can have as little help. And to as much as you just want, either you to take care of everything, to the moving to the packing to the estate sale, to putting your home on the market.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 07:02
You know, and you can of course, give your input if you’ve got a certain realtor, but they’ll work with you on everything. It’s basically customized resources for you to help with all of these, all of these logistics. It’s phenomenal. We have some wonderful, what we call right sizing, little helpers that come in and they they literally come in and I call them angels, they just come in and they just take care have everything. And it is so worth the percentage that they get. And it’s worth it, it is totally worth it. It gives you less stress. And you get to walk into your new place. And everything is put together. And it’s it’s stress free.

Pam Ostrowski 07:40
Well, and that’s the thing that I had to go through with my parents because my dad actually wrote a seven page letter to my my siblings and to me, and said, when we’re ready, we’ll have this conversation. But, you know, we’ve got to sort through our clothes and our belongings. And I had already thrown away a lot of nuts and bolts and things and that my dad had accumulated over decades.

Pam Ostrowski 08:07
And, and so when they were in that situation, I was like, Okay, Dad, tell you what, I’m going to help. And I kind of became that person. I found the realtor and I did all those things. But because he was more calm, comfortable with talking with me about Well, no, I don’t really want that, or I want this or I keep this but I don’t like this.

Pam Ostrowski 08:31
And then, you know, the the beauty of having a professional though, instead of a family member is one, no resentment you threw out. Boy, I can’t tell you how many times I heard that you threw out this. Where’s my whatever? And I’m like, I don’t know, it’s here somewhere, maybe.

Pam Ostrowski 08:53
Being able to have a professional come in, they have detachment, and they become your loved ones friends become your in the case of parents, they’ve kind of become the friend that’s like, you know what I understand. But wouldn’t it be better for us to just take a photo of this and maybe frame it, and then it doesn’t take up as much space? And you know, I moved some stuff that belong to my mom that belonged to her sisters. I mean, I’ve got some, some definite things that I kept. But I always asked myself in this last move, is it is it bringing me joy? Is it is it something that I liked and I found stuff that my mom didn’t even use that she was given. I was like, Well, why am I keeping it?

Pam Ostrowski 09:34
Having a professional, ask your loved ones these questions is so much easier than you doing it yourself. And that’s true of caregiving. It’s true. I’m prepping for a move. It’s true of so many of this later in life planning is what I call it. This later in life planning journey. When you’re thinking about this, you have to think about well, what are we going to do with this stuff? How important is it really to us or or does it just look pretty in the cabinet?

Pam Ostrowski 10:02
To get to this question point, you know, when I think about what the top reason is why parents in particular, but, you know, maybe spouses too, to keep it close to the vest is because they don’t want to be a burden.

Pam Ostrowski 10:16
I know, my mom knew that she was struggling with her cognitive capabilities. And my dad didn’t see it, because this was the love of his life, and he didn’t want to see it. So he didn’t, he just said, she’s just, you know, getting older, we were both getting older, and, you know, just kind of putting a lot of excuses out there. And she didn’t want to be a burden. And she would not have told me anything, I just basically, through observation, realize what was happening.

Pam Ostrowski 10:48
And so parents in particular, but even spouses don’t don’t want to be a bother, they don’t want to be a burden, they would rather sit still in a chair and not do anything, which is terrible for the brain than to actually say, could you help me make dinner? Could you help me find my keys? Could you help me take a shower, you know, or tell me where the soap is, or where’s the shampoo, but instead, they’re afraid of being a burden or being a bother.

Pam Ostrowski 11:18
And that dynamic is so detrimental to both parties in the relationship that I actually see, that is the number one reason to is it’s overwhelming, but it’s also, oh, we don’t want to start talking about this, because then the kids are going to step in and take and then there’s always one sibling, that would be me. Who will take over, right.

Pam Ostrowski 11:42
Also, your parents are scared to death that, you know, oh, geez, you know, Pam’s going to come in, and it’s going to be like a tornado. Whereas, you know, if they invited my brother, you know, he and his wife would sit down and be very calm and go through things slowly. And I’m like, No, we we got train to catch here, let’s just keep it moving. And so you have to pick the adult child, that is probably the one that matches with the personalities of the parents the best.

Pam Ostrowski 12:09
So that helps with that sense of burden, at least that should be the sibling or the adult child that talks with the parents first. Because there’s that fear factor of oh, you know, I just talked with one of my colleagues, and she’s one of seven kids. And the mom is is not doing well, she’s having some failing health issues. And that she’s like, well, thank goodness, we have seven because everybody comes in and steps up. And I’m like, I can’t imagine what your mother thinks of having all seven of you in her house. You know, so a big deal. A big deal.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 12:41
As I said, I was talking to my aunt. And I’ve had this conversation with my dad who’s passed on. But there’s one thing that my aunt and I have a clear understanding about because she’s going to be moving out here. And we had this about two years ago.

And she said, I don’t want to burden you. And I said, you’re actually burdening me by not moving out here. Because you know, if I’m never moving back to Kansas, I love visiting, but I’m never going back there. So you’re actually burdening me by not moving closer to me. And then she’s like, okay, now I understand. So I do have to, I want to make the move. But now that makes me feel better that I’m not burdening you.

Pam Ostrowski 13:31
Right. And I’m glad you brought that up, because my dad said the same thing. And this is when they were in New Hampshire, and I was in Phoenix, right? So we’re talking 2800 miles. And I said, Look, I worry about you every single day. Yep. So if you’re worried about me worrying about you, which is kind of funny. It’s then that we need to do something to get us closer together.

Pam Ostrowski 13:58
And again, just like you I’m there. I’m not moving back to New Hampshire. You know, shovel, sunshine, shovel snow, I’m going with the sunshine. And and so they, you know, we need to figure this out. The boys aren’t. The boys have other things going on. They’re not to step up here. And you’re in an environment that’s not physically safe for you with snow and ice and weather.

Pam Ostrowski 14:21
So yeah, exactly. It’s having that conversation. But I can almost tell you, if you’re an adult child, you can assume that your loved one doesn’t is thinking I don’t want to be a burden. So we’re not going to have this conversation because the conversation is perceived as a burden, right?

Pam Ostrowski 14:41
They’re saying, if I have this conversation with you, and I tell you that I don’t want to be a burden, then all of a sudden, I’m a burden. You know, like it’s like, it’s part of the deal and the definition. And yeah, so So you got to have the conversation and again, that this is what I do is help people have conversations like that. Just so, you know, that’s, that’s if you have this kind of situation, let us know. What else have we got going here?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 15:14
Well, we’re going to talk about spouses. But we’ve also got the money situation, too.

Pam Ostrowski 15:28
Why don’t we talk about, you know a bit about the spouses first. So, one of the things that I’ve seen, and frankly, I don’t know how old all of you are on the call or watching the recording, but I have noticed that people 60 And over, are, they’re more fearful.

Pam Ostrowski 15:53
Yes, your world opens up when you retire, or, you know, whatever you choose to do, you know, volunteering or philanthropy. But when you stop, and you realize, you know, I’m on the second part of this journey, I’m, you know, things are scary. And having that fear of, I don’t know what’s going to happen to me, health wise.

Pam Ostrowski 16:19
I just bought a tri level house, right? So there’s stairs up to the bedrooms and stairs down to the family room, and then there’s a living space. So three levels. And everybody said, Well, you’ve always lived in a single level home. Why are you getting stairs at this age? I was like, Why me? You know, like, because I’m acting, like, I’m 40. And so they’re like, You know what you worry about stairs, and I said, frankly, to me, there’s only five or six. That’s really good for my quads, my hamstrings for my stability, and keeping me working out while I’m at home. So I don’t have to drive to a gym, I can use those those tools.

Pam Ostrowski 16:59
As we get older, we’re afraid we become more cautious about how we’re going to live our life moving forward, what do those next 10 years look like? And I believe that it’s about what’s your belief about your next 10 years? So is it? Well, I’m going to get decrepit, my knees are going to be an issue, you know, I’m going to gain weight, because everybody gains weight, all these generalizations that really aren’t true. They are choices.

Pam Ostrowski 17:37
And so I would actually ask you, and you can apply this to anything is, is the thing you fear real? Like, you know, if you’ve fallen downstairs before, is there a chance that you will fall down the stairs again, okay, so that’s real. However, if you anticipate aging being not a good thing, and then then you live in fear?

Pam Ostrowski 18:05
And so what can you do to challenge that belief, because we all have a mindset of whatever our beliefs are, and it doesn’t matter who you are in that person’s life, they’re going to believe what they believe, until they themselves question it. So I want to make sure that you guys ask yourself that question is the thoughts that I’m having real? Is it is it actually factual? Or is it just a belief I’ve had for years and years and years and therefore it’s comfortable?

Pam Ostrowski 18:38
So I think people looking at later in life living like our favorite thing. Hey, this is a really nice “home.” You had those people come out and go to the fine dining at the independent living? And they said, What a beautiful home. You were like, what?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 18:56
Yes, when they came to our independent living community. This is not a home because they were referring to nursing home.

Pam Ostrowski 19:02
And yeah, I said that is skilled nursing. This is independent living you have your own apartment, you have your car, you have vacations, you have everything. So yeah, so that actually having everything brings us to that financial thing that you brought up. Do you want to talk more about the the fear of

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 19:23
Yeah, the the fear of a lot of people think “I can’t afford that”. You know, what is this going cost me and and I we pulled some numbers and if you are living in your own home now, I’m while I’m approaching in a couple years, I’ll be 50. So I still have a mortgage. I don’t have my house paid off yet. But if you don’t have your house paid off, you have a mortgage. The average cost of living in Arizona monthly is running in between about four to $5,000 a month. And

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 20:05
That includes your mortgage, your home, that your taxes, of course, their home insurance is going to be bundled into that. What about all the appliances that break down?

Pam Ostrowski 20:20
Yeah. Anybody got AC and Arizona?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 20:23
Yeah, so my husband works in air conditioning sales in Arizona, and pre pandemic 2020 2019 A five ton unit cost $8,000. Now they cost 15. That’s crazy expensive. So if you have a large, you have a large appliance, your air conditioning goes down, you’ve got Water Heater, Hot Water Heaters, your appliances, all of that stuff, because everything’s made to break.

Unfortunately, that’s just the world we live in. And so that that’s going to be additional costs. What about your landscaping? In Arizona, you have most everybody 80% of us have a pool. You know, we have scorpions and termites, so your pest control, there’s pests everywhere, no matter what state you’re in. So all of those additional things, of course, your utilities,

Pam Ostrowski 21:15
irrigation systems, sprinklers, water, water softener,

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 21:19
all of those things. And, you know, of course, that doesn’t include your food desert include weekly housekeeping. And those are all things that laundry, a laundry? Yeah, I mean, those are all things that are included in a senior living, independent community. And, needless to say, also, availability for transportation. Within a 10 mile radius, that’s all covered for you.

In the social setting, you know, there are studies and there’s a lot more studies coming out to that loneliness causes dementia. Right, isolation, isolation, exactly. Isolation and being lonely, will cause what can cause dementia. So having a social setting, and even if you’re not a huge social person, but at least you’ve got smaller things and availability for some social setting for you to be

Pam Ostrowski 22:17
stimulation. So a lot of people like I’m not a social person. I know the people who know me are like, No way. You’re an extrovert. No, I’m an introvert, I am willing to sit and watch and observe and listen. But I’m less likely to engage and still have that type of stimulation is good for the brain.

But sitting in isolation, I know so many of my clients, parents sit in front of the TV, and just watch TV. And that is one of the worst things you can do. And there’s so many things that they’re finding out to your point about research, isolation, depression, which is the loneliness factor, depression, deafness is also a contributor.

And then of course, Alzheimer’s is also considered type three diabetes, right. So a lot of people a lot more of our population is suffering from high blood sugar. And so we have all these different factors.

And Paige, I’ve sent you a link to this article about the fact that people who live in senior independent communities or assisted live longer longer as a result of having access to whatever services they need, whether that’s dining, laundry, housekeeping, you know, stimulation, being able to I mean, I don’t know about you guys, but I would love to play ping pong or pool but I’m not going to buy a ping pong table or a pool table and try to find a space for it in my house.

But when you live in the grand living environment where you’re independent and can tootle around and do whatever you want, and, you know, do your point about transportation, that’s something my dad, you know, he had a car but I’m like, you know, why don’t we leverage the transportation to go to Walgreens and, and these types of things are good for the human brain and the body and, and honestly, your quality of life. Like it’s a doctor like a luxury cruise liner. So many things, tell them about now that we’re on this path, tell them about the groups, the travel groups, there.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 24:31
We have a travel club, so we’re are one of our communities. They’re planning a Sedona trip, and then our community and surprise they are talking about they’re planning a trip to Kona to Hawaii. So the act of you know, the lifestyle director meets with our residents and guests and, you know, they sit down and have a powwow on where they want to go next. You know, and it happens my in laws live, you know, in a community, not in a community, but they live in a neighborhood and they all have to rally one another and orchestrate to get together to figure out to do a trip.

Whereas we have a director that does all that, you know, they just be they coordinate it all, get it all ready to go, so they can just enjoy their life. And, you know, the the social aspect of it is, is huge, like you said, people live longer, they live healthier, happier lives. And, and, and a lot of people think that the stigma is, oh my gosh, I have to be I have to be wealthy to be able to live in a community. That is so far untrue.

And, you know, people look at when you put the expenses down, and you really do the numbers, it is doable. It is my aunt is not a wealthy person. But her income and her Social Security is she’s going to be able to do it. And it it makes sense for her. Right. And so that’s why she’s going to do it. And she’s very excited, she’s nervous, but I’m going to pull out the nervousness and the anxiety hopefully for her and, and help her along the way. So, but the social aspect of it is huge.

Pam Ostrowski 26:10
and it’s natural to feel anxious when you move, right, because it’s, again, we’re back to fear of unknown. And so to kind of, you know, pull out because we went went deep dive on exciting things that you know about this quality of life, that senior living communities, whether and by the way, I wanted to qualify this senior living communities, I lived in a 55 and over community, that’s a senior living community, right? It’s a 55 and over active community.

Then progressing then to say, You know what, I don’t want to have a condo anymore, I don’t want to have, you know, I would rather live in an apartment where I can step out my door, walk down, grab a bagel, or, or lunch and not have to get in the car or not have to fire up the stove, open the refrigerator doors and saying, all right, I need to go grocery shopping. Now I can’t have lunch because I have to go do this.

And so the fact that all of this is so handy, is part of this quality of life conversation that Paige and I tried to emphasize is that it’s nothing to be afraid of. Yes, it’s natural to have anxiety about a change. Change is hard for most people. But being able to have this conversation with your loved one and say I get it.

So the things to remember are validate their feelings when you’re having a conversation. It’s like I got it, you know what, but wouldn’t it be better? Why don’t we go look? And why wouldn’t it be better? If we start researching now, and take a look now, and then if it doesn’t look like it’s a fit, that’s fine. It’s about starting early, sooner is smarter is one of my favorite phrases.

And being able to understand, especially if you have a parent or a spouse who’s in their 70s or older, they’re used to when they went to the nursing home and saw their grandparents in a medical environment where there were a bunch of nurses and white uniforms were swarming around, and they were in a medical bed, and it was very clinical environment.

And it’s really important, especially for having this conversation that you get out and go look and really make sure that you’re using a placement agent who’s a professional, not somebody who just says, Hey, I used to be a realtor, now I’m a placement agent, you know, look for someone with a PASR’s qualification, so that they can tell you, you know, look, these are different communities based on, you know, budget and services, let’s do the math and sit down and do that your comparison of your expenses versus these other options. Those are the kinds of conversations that you can have prior to worrying about actually making the move, right, because making the move, that’s when we get into the overwhelm. And this is too hard. You know, there’s a lot of different ways to get around that.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 29:14
I always tell families just, you know, the fear of the unknown to me is not knowing. So, you know, if you if you’re looking at a 10 year plan, say you’re 70 and you’re like, you know, I’m 70, I just I’m looking I’m going to be 80 in 10 years, why not just pop in and go take a look?

It doesn’t mean you’re moving in, it doesn’t mean you’re moving tomorrow or the next year, it could be maybe five years down the road, but at least at least get an idea of what they look like and I get so many people that come into our communities and like oh my gosh, I cannot believe that this is a senior living community, you know, and fine dining and you know, we’ve got a base Throw in the social, the social setting, and, you know, the beautiful, the beautiful building, and all the fun stuff to do in it. So I sooner is smarter and why not? You know, it’s not going to hurt you by popping into a community or two or

Pam Ostrowski 30:14
two or three, right? And you can go for lunch or dinner or whatever. Absolutely. Gail has an interesting question. And we hear this a lot. So her her mom is having issues with cognitive decline, or a family member, I should say. And they’re looking into assisted living, which is what you would want to do.

Yep, you start off with assisted living, if there’s any cognitive impairment, they’re going to want to get to know your loved one sooner, right? Because once, if she thinks it’s going to be hard moving now, it’s going to be a lot worse down the line.

So now is the time to move her so that both the caregivers and the staff get to know her and her needs and her likes and dislikes. And that way she can then integrate. Now, here’s the thing, Gail, when she moves, and I’ve seen this with my mom, who by the way, lost her words, eight years before she passed, meaning she had no conversations, no sentences, she got better every time I moved her twice, once from one place to another. But both times she got better. Because she had stimulation, she had engagement, she had attention.

Part of the problem, and what we as adult children don’t recognize, is you’re killing them by leaving them where they’re at. I mean, that sounds severe, but it’s worse for them to stay where they are, then to move in and get better. So the fear again, you have a belief that oh, she’s just going to get worse and worse and worse. With especially with dementia, it’s a roller coaster, it’s going to get better, it’s going to get worse.

And actually we have people on this call, who have watched their loved one go from not remembering how to button their pants, to totally socializing, having conversations and following the conversation. I have several clients whose parents have had to have been through that experience. They think because of the stimulation, they got better.

So it’s an unreasonable fear and unreasonable expectation to say that she’s by default going to get worse. If you leave her where she is, I can pretty much guarantee if he or she is living alone, that they will get worse. So now comes the financial question. I’m going to hand it off to you, Paige, because it’s a hot potato.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 32:36
Okay, so I’m seeing here, Gail, that she has her home. So she’s going to liquidate, she’s going to liquidate that and go through that. She’s also has a long term care insurance policy. My question to you is, first of all, how bad or how progressive? Do you think her dementia is? In your own opinion on a scale from one to 10? Can you answer that? Do you think it’s 10 being the worst?

Pam Ostrowski 33:07
Well, in my opinion, it’s too general of a question. And you’re and so is your mom able to do tasks? Like take a shower? Is your mom able to feed herself as your mom? You know, is she just forgetting people’s names? Well, that’s assisted living,

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 33:24
that’s assisted living. So and the reason I asked that, yeah, is because memory care, you know, depending on you, you got to really have her evaluated, that’s my, that’s my suggestion is have her evaluated, and wherever you choose, for her to go, then they’re going to give you the feedback and say, okay, you know, she can do fine in assisted living, or we’re going to suggest memory care. But the cost part of it depending on where you live, if you’re in Arizona, she’s got a home, she has the long term care insurance policy, which you know, that will eventually run out depending on what her age is.

If she’s living in Arizona, Arizona has some really good communities that you can do private pay, and you can roll over to the Arizona long term care system. I don’t know what state you’re in. If you are in Arizona, you’re you know, you’re in good shape, because we have that program out here. And I would highly suggest that you find a community that had that program. So if and when she does outlive she does outlive her money. And she might, then you can fall back on the Arizona Long Term Care System, which is Medicaid in Arizona. Right?

Pam Ostrowski 34:32
It is everywhere. Yeah,

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 34:33
And there’s Medicaid in every state, but it’s different depending on if you’re in. So for example, if you’re in Kansas, and you go to Medicaid, you’re forced to go to that old nursing home that everybody is so afraid of. Yeah, unfortunately. But Arizona we have we have some of the best options here and we’re cutting edge to senior housing and so they give a lot of options. So um I think you’re in pretty good shape. So

Pam Ostrowski 35:02
Gail, I, if you if you have further questions, you know, please reach out to us. And we’ll have a private conversation with you on things to look for and that type of thing, because it’s very easy to spin out of control on this. And to be now oh my gosh, this is going to happen, that’s going to happen.

And by the way, the person with cognitive impairment is the first one to spin out of control. So they’re worrying about things that aren’t necessarily I mean, like I said, my mom, you know, 14 years, right? So, we were on that journey for 14 years, and it was very up and down the first six, my dad was fine, you know, with helping her then the next four, he was still helping her he was with her. So you know, does this person that your family member have any family support, you know, in other words, a spouse or someone to be with to live within this apartment.

And, and so Gail says, left her own devices, she’s not great at eating, she can dress and walk, she’s lost many words struggles to answers questions, and we’re not in Oregon. Okay. So Gail, why don’t we, you know, sit down and have a chat with you and just kind of work through? Because I think it’s a great question. And I’m sure almost everybody here probably has it is, you know, how do we make this work? And being able to make it specific, because, you know, part of it is age, Paige, you brought that up?

How old is she because if she’s like 85, you know, then that’s going to be a different story than my mom had 77 or, you know, I hear a lot of early 70s 7267 situations, and then now you do have to look, you know, down down the line a little bit further.

So it’s very unique. And this journey is very unique, both from a financial, emotional, and disease base. The condition itself is unique to everyone. So when we do these these conversations, we always like to give you that caveat that what we’re saying is applying to a general population. But your unique story and situation is something that we would have a private conversation with you. So yeah, 72

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 37:09
Yeah, set. Yeah. And I just by looking at this, and we could go off in a rabbit hole, we won’t, but just by what you’re indicating here it to me. Sounds like she’s headed towards memory care.

Pam Ostrowski 37:24
Yeah, well, and she will definitely down the line.

Pam Ostrowski 37:33
So dementia isn’t memory loss, memory loss is one of probably 20 different symptoms. So as long as she’s able to get dressed, and everything that allows her to be in assisted living, if if she starts to struggle with, you know, staying in a room and not coming out and not eating and losing weight or gaining weight, or not knowing if she’s eaten or not, then that’s where you’re going to have some of the needs more cueing either from a caregiver at assisted living, or move her into memory care.

And yes, memory care is definitely, you know, the numbers that I’m hearing from people, depending on what state you’re in, you know, maybe if you’re lucky, you’re at 7500, but many of them go to 10,000 or more, especially post COVID. Because there’s a higher demand for caregivers. And oh, by the way, you know, 10,000 of us turn are turning 65 every day as baby boomers, we found another four years of that. So you know, there’s a big demand, right. And so that means that put stress on the infrastructure, which then has to result in cost increases. So, but we digress. But thank you, Gail.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 38:48
Thank you. That was a good question here. I’ve got a good question from Joanne. Do we take pets in communities? And yes, we do. So I wanted to make sure everyone not all communities do but all right, not all communities do. Yes. Not all communities do but we do. And the majority are independent living. Absolutely. Most of them I’ll take pets. In assisted living, it’s going to be probably about 70% Probably do, 30%. It comes down

Pam Ostrowski 39:26
to capability. You are not paying for a caregiver to go walk your dog. So unless you bring in a dog walking service and say, Okay, I need you to come in and take care of my dog for me, that would have to be something a conversation you’d have with your assisted living community. And I’ve even seen in in memory care, the house dog and the house cat.

So they actually bring in a dog or a cat to live in the community and that’s when the community actually, the staff actually does take care of the animal. So lots just a wide gamut of of options.

And this is the reason why we do these calls, is to help you realize that there isn’t one answer, there isn’t just one model, there are literally probably, you know, 100 different options and variations of the type of services that you can get in independent living, assisted living and memory care.

So it’s, that’s why we do what we do, right? Because a general answer is never going to be right. It’s just going to be kind of a swag of, of what we know. And what we hear.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 40:35
Yep. And memory care that we do to some memory cares do take pets as well. But again, it’s based on your capability. And you’re looking at a lot more additional costs, because we’re caring for not only your loved one, but now we’re caring for a pet because they don’t have a whole lot of the capability to to handle that. But yeah, it’s a lot of it’s case by case. But these are good questions.

Pam Ostrowski 40:59
One other one that that I hear from adult children in particular, and I heard from my own father actually, is, I’m too young to move into a place like that, you know, it seems like there’s this mentality or this mindset of you have to be really old. We were going and visiting different communities with my brother and sister in law, my parents, we peeked into a dining room, and you know, the community was, was, you know, in their 70s, and 80s, and some in their 90s. And dad’s like, you know, this isn’t going to work for me. And I said, why is that? And he’s like, Well, these are all old people. And I said, Dad, you’re 88. When does that start for you?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 41:48
Right? My grandmother, same thing. This was 20 years ago, we had moved her to our community in Kansas before I moved to Arizona, and she was 92. And she goes, I’m not going down to that dining room with all those old people. And I was like, I said, we call it a bird. And I said, bird, but your 92 I know, you don’t feel it. And you definitely don’t look like it. But they’re in their 80s. You’re one of the real you’re on the higher end, you’re much older than a lot of them here. So yeah, we just don’t see ourselves aging.

Pam Ostrowski 42:24
at that age. But why don’t you suppose there’s that hesitance to move to have that mentality of I need to be old enough? In order to move in? What are your thoughts on that? Ah,

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 42:36
the hesitant? Well, the hesitant. 20 is, again, again, it’s about fear, I think a lot of it is it, they feel like they’re not going to have any independence anymore. Restricted constraints directions. Yeah, the restrictions are thinking, Oh, my gosh, somebody’s coming into my life telling me what to do and when, and that is so far from the truth.

Again, if you need help, you need assistance, you know, that’s fine but in an independent living, you come and go. So I think it’s the fear of the independence is, is and they, they, we need to, you know, try to educate families. So they understand that you have as much independence and you can move out, you can move out whenever you want,

Pam Ostrowski 43:27
That’s a month to month, No contract, right?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 43:29
You’re not buying into a huge, you know, several $100,000, and you’re stuck in this lease, nothing like that at all. So you have the freedom to come and go. And we have people that come in, because we have snowbirds. And so we have people that come in and rent rent for us for three to four months, six months out of the year, and go back and forth. So go back to their home, and then come out to Arizona to be with friends and family and rent from us on a you know, three to six month lease or lease agreement.

Pam Ostrowski 44:03
And that totally makes sense. The other thing, too, is people need a reason to wake up in the morning, we all do you need a purpose. And I think my parents thought, well, if we move into this place, which I think is the way my dad called, you know, referred to it this place, then, you know, we’re not going to be able to do X, Y and Z.

So like you said, the restraint, the constraints, you know, they’re going to tell us when we can get what that was. They’re going to tell us when we can eat and when we can’t. Because food was very important to my dad. And so he said, so there’s a bistro, it’s open from you know 10 In the morning until four o’clock and then you have to kind of fill the window of when people may they may skip breakfast and then go to lunch or not have breakfast or lunch. He didn’t eat breakfast or lunch, he would only have dinner, but he get peckish. And instead of going for lunch, it would be like 130. And he would say, Well, I want something and I can’t.

And I’m like, well, first of all, you have a refrigerator in your apartment. So if you want something, and you’ve got cabinets with that whole food, if you’re interested in that, or you can have somebody fix you something at the Bistro downstairs, and so I kind of shot that down, because I was like, Dad, you’re creating issues that don’t exist.
And so when we talk about what wakes you up in the morning, if I had a travel group, so you mentioned Hawaii, being able to start your own travel group, like if, if there were a bunch of people who love to travel to Italy, I put up a sign up sheet now, can you tell us? How how do you encourage your residents to start leading something like that? Or? Or is that a conversation they have with the activity director to say, hey, I want to get a group of people together to go out to dinner theater?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 46:07
We have a we have an Ambassador Club. And so there’s a full orientation when they come in? We really do I feel like we do an excellent job of really getting the full social biography of who this person is. So it’s our job. And we’re building relationships with these people. So get a we’re learning who they are. And we really get down to the nitty gritty on, you know, what did they do in their life? What was their career? You know, what are their hobbies? What did they used to love to do?

And then we really team up our ambassador, we’ve got residents, and I mean, they’re our spokespeople. They love to come and welcome in new people. And they help out with orientation, and kind of pair them up with other residents. And then they meet with the Active Living director, and they just sit down and have powwows about, hey, let’s do this. Or why don’t we do this.

You know, we’ve got a gentleman that is still he still volunteers and neighbors who care and drives their bus and drives and does Meals on Wheels in our community. That’s about eight miles from our community. He’s still doing that. And then he’s got other residents that are volunteering, and also helping out in the community.

We’ve got our nifty knitters club. We’ve got our travel club, book club, chess club. I mean, I walked in our community the other day, and they’re all in there playing. We’ve got some playing bridge, some playing cribbage Scrabble, I mean, they’re playing pool having beer wine. I mean, they’re just having they’re just having a great time. We really team them up together.

And I’m super excited, because in May, we’re going to be having our panel discussion, we’re going to have some guests for you. And they’re going to be residents that live in an independent living community. So you’re going to hear directly from them. So yeah, we really pair them up. Got, you’d be surprised at pulling some of these residents out that are so you wouldn’t think they’d be social at all. And they’re very apprehensive and nervous. They’re just they’re loving it. jobs to do, they have little break it,

Pam Ostrowski 48:08
it gives them a full life. And I think, you know, you and I spend so much time trying to educate people on the fact that this isn’t like you’re going to sit and play bingo. And that’s it. You know, and so if you do go to a community, and they don’t have the type of lifestyle that we’re talking about, you’re in the wrong community, you know, that there’s only so much you can do to, to regulate what’s available to you. And that’s why we encourage you to, to it first, to bring in a placement agent who gets paid by the community. So you don’t have to worry about

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 48:51
Paying. Utilize us, Pam and I will walk you through the process.

Pam Ostrowski 48:54
iYeah, so I work with people all over the country, not as a placement agent, but I can make recommendations to you know, here’s one that you should look at, or here’s another one that you should look at. You don’t have to do this on your own. That’s the nice thing about to me a placement agent helps but but it’s a matter of looking at the website look, knowing what to look for what questions to ask, and because you know, it does become a bit of a you know, let us show off our community, but you’ll get a gut feel for what will work and what won’t work. Okay, so we’ve rattled on we have a few more questions we

Pam Ostrowski
So for the people we promised that we would answer two questions that will make this easier for you to have a conversation with your loved one about making this move. So Paige, I think I’ve got you down as you know, what are what would you say? A is the question that they could ask to help their loved one rethink their mindset.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 50:08
Or your parents to rethink their mindset?

Pam Ostrowski 50:11
It could be parents, it could be a spouse, how do you start? Who do they talk with? How do they have that conversation to make it easier on them to get?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 50:24
I think, I think we’ve talked about this, it’s, it’s really kind of putting it back on us and saying, you know, mom, or dad, here’s what I’m thinking about doing in, in my life, when I get to be, you know, when I turn 65, I’m going to start thinking about what I want to do in my future.

And also think about, you know, utilize friends and peers and examples of people that are going through this and say, you know, what, Betty down the street, I saw her and I talked to her daughter, and she just moved into, you know, an assisted living or went down to the independent living community, you know, two miles from us, and, we should maybe go by and have lunch with her, those types of things and getting them engaged and validating, giving them examples, but also acknowledging and validating their feelings when they do talk about it.

Pam Ostrowski

And because they’re going to talk about their fears, and their fear of the unknown. And, I think examples are huge, because then that way, you’re not feeling like you’re parenting them, I can’t stand the†I’m parentingmy parent,†and they don’t want to be parented. You don’t want to be told what to do.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 51:42
And I hear it all the time. And it’s like, your parents don’t do that. So giving examples and just be like, you know, I, I’m thinking about doing this and downsizing and going in, you know, maybe a small condo living or an apartment living when I’m 70 years old and still really active.

Then ask, And what do you think about that? Mom? What do you think about that dad, and see what you get from them, and you’re going to get some resistance, I’m not going to lie. You are. But if you can, you know, kind of approach the situation in that way. It’s going to be, it’s not going to be as big of a blow to them. And it’s going to be you’re asking them, not telling them.

Pam Ostrowski 52:25
Right. And, and, you know, being able to say, Well, what does your life look like 10 years from now? Right, whether it’s to a spouse or to to a parent? That’s a general question. So my mind question. So that was Paige’s question.

My question is, is really about how, how do you keep it general? Have you the number one thing that I hear from adult children is because they’ve waited too long? To start this conversation?

I hear a lot of “you shouldâ€, “you need toâ€, “you really aren’t capable anymoreâ€. And that’s all of this negativity, because they’re scared, right? The person who’s delivering the message is scared. And so they use words and phrase that shut down conversation. “You need toâ€, “you can’t take care of yourself anymore.†“Look, you can’t do this.†“You can’t do that.†And that

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 53:26
is taking away their independence, right?

Pam Ostrowski 53:27
heartbreaking. Yeah. And you know what, they are not going to open the door the next time you show up? No, and and then it’s like, oh, well, mom’s just being stubborn. It’s like, No, you were a bit of a jerk. I mean, sorry.

You have to approach this with a respectful stance, that says, what are you what are you thinking moving forward? I want to support you. So let’s talk about, you know, what does it look like? And then odds are your right pages are going to start off with I don’t want this, I don’t want you to put me in a home. I don’t want you to do this.

And it’s like, okay, so let’s just step back from that phrase. And you’re saying you don’t want me to do something to you. I don’t plan to do anything to you, mom, or dad or spouse. I’m asking you what

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 54:17
you want to do. Right? And

Pam Ostrowski 54:20
and then let’s talk about what you want to do, not what you don’t want. Because that’s where you get that downward spiral and all those fears that they’re not going to articulate the specific fear. They’re just going to dump on you. And then everybody feels defeated, and now, we can’t have that conversation anymore. We’re afraid to because then this happens. It’s because of the way you teed up the conversation.

So we have to take that responsibility and say, All right, before we have this conversation, I need to write down how do I start it? What words do I use? I mean, this is my world, right? I’m all about words. You know, how do we put Isn’t it so the family is on board.

So nobody says, Oh, I hear that so and so’s thinking of putting you in a home. Oh, yeah, that’s that. That’s all. That’s all it took to close down the conversation. So that’s really important.

And then keep it short. You know, one of the things I hear about kids, it’s like, well, we’re going to sit down and talk with mom and dad. And it’s like, how long are you planning on doing this? And it’s like, oh, well, we thought, you know, probably take an hour or two and like an intervention.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 55:28
No, yeah, that’s like, no, no.

Pam Ostrowski 55:30
So it should be in casual conversation, or, you know, dropping little hints not sitting down and having a conversation because, you know, there’s nobody wants to have those kinds of conversations, it doesn’t matter if it’s aging, or dating, or marriage or whatever you nobody wants to be sat down and talk to.

So it’s really important to be casual. You could be having ice cream and say, you know, I was over visiting a friend of mine whose mom is at this independent living, and they have an ice cream machine. That was my mom’s favorite feature of the first independent living that they went to, is that they had an ice cream machine.

And you know, she she might have struggled with with her words. But by God, she knew exactly where that ice cream machine was, she went down every day at three o’clock and had her call and you can make it yourself, right? So she was practicing her skills as a Dairy Queen, ice cream maker, and that made her happy.

Just having those kinds of conversations where you can relate what you’re doing at this moment to how cool it would be, you know, what, what are you thinking of 10 years from now? Do you think it’d be on a golf course? Do you think you’ll be traveling? Do you think you’d be doing this?

You know, there’s a lot of people 27% of the population over 60 is living alone right now, which is disturbing. So 27% of the population over 60 is living alone. And those people may not have relationships, they may think, you know, I’m never going to travel, because I don’t have anybody to travel with. This is where you start that conversation of if you want to travel, certainly you can. And you don’t have to worry about being alone. Because you’d be in in an environment where there would be other people with similar interests. So that would be my question.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 57:20
Right Pam, it is literally all about the delivery, the setting. And in this circumstance, less is always more.

Pam Ostrowski 57:28
Yep, absolutely. Keep it short, keep it simple and make it about what do they want? Not what you think they need, because nobody needs anybody telling them what they think they need. So all right, we’re at the top of the hour.

Pam Ostrowski 57:50
And then the next one is April 25. Is that right? It is?

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 57:57
Yeah, April 25. Yep.

Pam Ostrowski 58:00
And we’re going to switch up the time you guys and let us know what you think. But we’re going to do 9am Pacific 12pm. Eastern on April 25. And our topic is, you know, do you need support and helping your aging parents? Because it’s not an easy thing. We’ve already kind of touched on on some of the the challenges. So what kind of support is out there? But also, how can we here’s some support tools that you can use without having to talk with anybody else. We’re going to provide those types of ways of helping you feel supported as an adult child, so and as a spouse as well, but we tend to target the adult children in that particular case.

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 58:42
Okay, exactly. And we just enjoy having you and everybody have a wonderful holiday weekend upcoming. And

Pam Ostrowski 58:52
for those of you who celebrate Easter, happy Easter, those

Paige Fairbanks-Gunn Koelsch 58:54
of you that celebrate Easter. Absolutely. Have a wonderful week, guys.

Pam Ostrowski 58:58
All right, you guys take care. Thank you. Thank you